The Future Isn’t Hybrid. It’s Already Here. | Featuring: Alon Alroy, Bizzabo

Transcript:

Elise Orlowski (00:08):

I’m Elise Orlowski, a Senior Video Director here at Cramer.

Tripp Underwood (00:11):

And I’m Tripp Underwood, a Creative Director at Cramer.

Elise Orlowski (00:13):

And at Cramer, we work with so many incredibly fascinating people from all over multiple industries.

Tripp Underwood (00:18):

We have so many great conversations, many that are just too good to keep to ourselves. So now we’re sharing them with the world.

Elise Orlowski (00:23):

Right here from Cramer Studios.

Tripp Underwood (00:25):

This is Pivot Points.

Elise Orlowski (00:26):

Cut.

Good to see you again, Tripp.

Tripp Underwood (00:38):

Hey, good to see you too. Another day, another Pivot Point.

Elise Orlowski (00:40):

Another day, another Pivot Points. Well, today we’re talking about virtual events, specifically, buzzword, hybrid.

Tripp Underwood (00:47):

Future.

Elise Orlowski (00:48):

But I’m super excited to welcome our guests today. Alon. He is the co-founder Bizzabo, which if you’re not aware, Tripp and I know Bizzabo very well.

Tripp Underwood (00:57):

Household name here at Cramer.

Elise Orlowski (00:58):

Exactly. But as a virtual event technology platform for hybrid virtual and in-person events, specifically virtual events this year, Bizzabo’s really leading the game in this, but Alon was named the meeting industries 40 under 40 young leaders by Collaborative magazine, top 10 Israeli CMOs by GeekTown magazine, and 100 most influential people in the events industry by Eventex.

Tripp Underwood (01:21):

So he’s younger than me and far more celebrated than me. Congratulations.

Elise Orlowski (01:25):

And probably one of the most prestigious people that we’ve been able to interview on this so far.

Tripp Underwood (01:29):

Certainly the most qualified to talk about Pivot Points and especially what that means for the industry, no denying that at all.

Elise Orlowski (01:36):

Exactly. Awesome. So without further ado, what’s welcome. Alon. Hello. How are you? Thanks for joining us today.

Alon Alroy (01:44):

I’m so happy to be here. Thank you very much for inviting me.

Tripp Underwood (01:48):

Great to have you.

Elise Orlowski (01:49):

Yes. So we’re talking about hybrid and I think hybrid and virtual events there’s so much in array of things that are possible now, virtual events, we’ve done them and Bizzabo has been such a great partner, but I’m curious as we really, before we dive into the future of events, how has it been for the Bizzabo team? How has it been early pandemic and what learnings did you guys have early on during Bizzabo when adapting to such a ramp up for virtual events?

Alon Alroy (02:22):

What is virtual events? That’s a sort of first time I hear about that term.

Tripp Underwood (02:27):

It’s like TV, but it’s for corporate communications.

Alon Alroy (02:32):

You know what, the crazy thing is that in February 2020, no one really talks about virtual events. No one knew what hybrid was, we’re still trying to figure that one out, by the way, if I go back in time, February 2020, Bizzabo was in a great growth trajectory. We raised a bunch of money. We were on this amazing momentum powering live in-person events for some of the world’s greatest brands from Amazon and Salesforce, and many, many others. In March 2020, March six. And I remember that day pretty quick, pretty clearly. We were on the leadership offsite somewhere in Tel Aviv, brought everyone from New York there to really think and plan or objectives for H2 of that year. On the second day, which has got an email after an email, after an email of customers telling us that their events are canceled, are not even allowed to run events.

They want their money back, refunds, concessions. And we as entrepreneurs, we’ve been through a lot of ups and downs, but that was a holy shit moment.

Elise Orlowski (03:46):

An exponential curve. If you were.

Alon Alroy (03:50):

Okay. Who on earth would actually pay for an event software for physical in-person events? We really need to take action and we need to take action fast. The day after, we decided that, okay, first of all, we’re not going to complete the agenda for the offsite because we have other priorities. And we decided that we really need to reinvent ourselves and decided that again, by the way, early March virtual events were still not a thing. There were webinars. And there were some legacy platforms who had all kinds of avatars, but it was less than 1% of the events of the world. And it was pretty clear to us that this thing is going to stay. Meaning that this pandemic, although it was pretty early on, it’s not going away anytime soon on March 22nd, we released a press release in which we’ve evolved our platform to support virtual events.

And that was before we knew that the market actually will adopt virtual events or even have a need to virtual event. We were really first to market with just the assumption that people will need to keep engaging. Brands will need to keep engaging with their audiences. And we already had this pretty robust event, success platform that we just need to evolve it, to support the needs of a remote audience. And two months later we moved from a defense to offense and saw that the market reaction was very positive. We partnered with agencies like Cramer and others and arrange our own first virtual event in early May called Almost In Person. At the time it felt almost there. We had not know that we’re going to need to wait another year.

Tripp Underwood (05:46):

What was your, fascinating, I can’t imagine having to make those kinds of decisions, such big decisions over such a short amount of time, a little precedent. What is it in your background or background of the other people you’re working with that either allowed you to take that kind of gamble, or what was the thought process going into, we need to completely evolve what this company does and who we fundamentally are to capitalize on this, on this opportunity?

Alon Alroy (06:14):

That is a great question. And I think that’s one of the more unique things about Bizzabo is our company culture and core values. That really when it’s difficult, when we’re dealing with uncertainty, this is the time we strive as a company. In terms of the background, 10 years of entrepreneurship is preparing you for all those unknowns. But before that, myself and my co-founders who were all serving in the Air Force for many, many years. And I think that really helped sharpen those, I guess, leadership skills and dealing with unknowns and uncertainty. And that was a time where we knew we need to be very decisive. We need to lean on our core values that are all about daring, choosing excellence, caring. We also, it was also very important for us to keep providing value to all of our customers who really count on us. And in a way we felt we were on a mission to also help people keep their jobs. You probably remember every other person lost their job. And in the event industry, there was a real fear for, and then an entire industry to become non relevant.

Tripp Underwood (07:25):

You’re not telling me anything. Those were a long couple of weeks. I got two little kids at home and there was a lot of talk between my wife of, okay, in the event that this doesn’t work out, I could do this. I could do that. So I empathize with that anxiety very much and appreciate people like yourself, working to figure out how we can keep this train moving.

Elise Orlowski (07:44):

Yeah. I think something that Tripp and I’ve really been talking about, even with just virtual events in general, is this idea of partnership. I think we’ve all been partnering together, events, clients, virtual platforms, and being able to figure this out together, because there’s so many unknowns, even the expectations of what virtual events were and like how that was going to transition. But I’m curious, so Bizzabo was obviously a different platform before it became the platform it is now. What were some of the key learnings throughout 2020 and the things that you guys really had to take advantage of and that you saw and had to change within the platform as things went on?

Alon Alroy (08:24):

Yeah. One of our actually core values, and I’m going to keep maybe going back to them, because that was sort of our compass during that time. So one of them is that we’re a humble and, it talks about us being constant learners and us surrounding ourselves with smart people who know more than us. And we, the first realization-

Elise Orlowski (08:47):

That’s a good value.

Alon Alroy (08:48):

Is that we’re not experts. One, we don’t know what we don’t know about this industry. And two that it’s something completely different. And one of the first things we did is that, okay, first of all, we need to make sure we have many strategy discussions because of those unknowns. And we also really reached out to people from other industries and built those think tanks in a way, we brought people from the gaming industry, from the dating industry, from game theory and then finance and behavioral economics. And we brought them together to help us figure out this new medium of virtual and hybrid and what would people want and how to engage an audience and what are some of the trends that we should expect to see? Because we knew that no one has done that before. So we just need to collect people from many different industries who are very smart and experienced to help us navigate this new terrain.

Elise Orlowski (09:45):

Yeah. I’m curious, what are some of the things that you guys saw over this past year that really were the most beneficial ways to engage an audience through a virtual platform?

Alon Alroy (09:57):

And I think some of the early learnings we had are now common knowledge. From people do not want to engage over one hour sessions. And maybe we have keynotes of 45 minutes at the beginning. And over time, I think we all landed on our call, needs to be 15 to 20 minutes. Otherwise you’re just going to lose people.

Tripp Underwood (10:16):

Yeah.

Elise Orlowski (10:16):

Yeah.

Alon Alroy (10:16):

And also that sense of how to engage a remote audience is something that really took a lot of practice to understand. Is it supposed to be in a conversation or what do you do when you have this very, very long… You saw that on, for example, from two years ago, like a Facebook Live, let’s say we all had some exposure to some virtual elements, right? When a Facebook Live or YouTube Live and things like that. And you see this sea of comments that you cannot even, you are not able to track.

So how do we actually translate that to meaningful moments? And this is something that, to us, was really missing in the past year. Yes, we brought a lot of people together and I think we did amazing things by, by enabling brands to get closer to their audiences. But we saw that something is missing around an experience, meaningful moments, meaningful relationships. So when we think about coming back to in person, or when to think about that hybrid future, we’re really thinking about how to bring those moments to life, because we feel like that over the past year, first of all, people are a bit tired.

Elise Orlowski (11:22):

To say the least.

Tripp Underwood (11:25):

The Zoom fatigue is real.

Elise Orlowski (11:27):

Oh yeah.

Alon Alroy (11:27):

It is very real. And for obvious reasons, and people need, they really miss those beautiful moments that you get in-person and those can happen in a remote environment as well. It takes time. And there was a huge technological innovation in the past year that we’ve been all been waiting for, so many good things will come out of it. And I do feel and know, and we’re on mission to do that is to create those meaningful moments, regardless of where you are, this is your audience. You need to make sure that the experience is personalized to them as well.

Tripp Underwood (12:03):

Talking about engagement, it’s audience engagement, super important, arguably the most important thing for the hybrid event, but engagement with between audience and speaker is important to, Elise and I have both worked in the live events for a long time. And that energy between the crowd and presenter, entertainer, whomever is on stage. That is very real and very important to getting a great performance out of people. And I know you guys are making some interesting strides in that, that I’d love to hear more about because I’m looking forward to being able to use that and kind of use it as an aid to help performers I’m talking to that are used to being in front of a live crowd and are now trying to adjust to life in front of the camera.

Alon Alroy (12:51):

As someone who spoke in front of an audience a few times in the past year, it was really frustrating, scary experience that we speak in front of, let’s say 500,000 people, and you really have no clue. Are people happy, frustrated? Are they even there? And also the audience it’s difficult to actually get excited or to show your excitement. And then also event organizers are frustrated because they also do not know, thinking about that amazing energy at the live event that as a producer was an organizer, you sit and you just, you look at the audience, you see the smiles, you see people getting inspired and you feel the pulse of the audience. You feel the presence.

Tripp Underwood (13:33):

You hear them clap. We’ve been doing it for hundreds of thousands of years for a reason.

Elise Orlowski (13:37):

Yeah, exactly.

Tripp Underwood (13:38):

It produces a real sense of excitement.

Elise Orlowski (13:40):

Yes.

Alon Alroy (13:41):

And it’s true. There is an emoji of a clap and many visual platform has one of those beautiful emojis and many emojis and a few emojis, but something was missing. And when we met Whalebone, this amazing, talented team from Sweden, there was this amazing click because we really felt that this is something that we were not able to identify, that it was missing until we saw it. And they use it for the first time and suddenly, and for those of you who do not know, Bizzabo acquired a company called Whalebone a couple of weeks ago, that is all about humanizing virtual events and bringing that feeling of presence into those events, by making the audience able to clap and participate. By the way, you can actually clap with your hands, or you can click a button and that will enable the sound of a clap. And this amazing algorithm really can simulate noise of a live audience. So if only 10 people clap versus a thousand people clap, you can really hear it. So the audience, so the speaker, sorry, you can really feel whether their messages resonate with the audience or not. And it’s all wrapped up with a lot of beautiful analytics. So the organizer actually knows whether the audience is engaged or not. All of that will be released in the upcoming a few months, but it is amazing. I’m personally very excited about it.

Tripp Underwood (15:12):

So not only does it work as a way to boost a sense of connection between audience and performer, but it also can provide a little bit of a success metric. I know that’s a big part in the events world of, this was great, it went off without a hitch. Everyone feels happy, but we don’t always necessarily have those metrics that we can use as KPIs going forward. It sounds like this might be able to help fill some of that gap.

Alon Alroy (15:38):

Definitely. And we’ve been always now since we really pivoted from the very early days of Bizzabo as an event networking app to an end to end event success platform. We said event success, because it was all about the outcomes. It was all about driving success. And oftentimes in those virtual events, although we have many analytics that anything you can imagine in terms of session duration and participation levels and so on and so on, we really always wanted to provide something extra that would really, if you see the numbers we want the owners to feel okay. I know for a fact it was successful or not. I don’t need to do all of the proxies of, oh, if they stayed for 50 minutes, it means they loved it.

Tripp Underwood (16:24):

It’s pretty loose. Pretty loose data points.

Elise Orlowski (16:26):

Yeah.

Alon Alroy (16:28):

And that would mean that you cannot argue with that one, right? Everyone clapped. Very simple.

Elise Orlowski (16:33):

Yeah. I know. I think that’s such a big part of virtual events. I mean, sorry, of live events, right. Is knowing that immediate, was it successful or not? The audience was engaged, that immediate success, I think with data analytics, I think for virtual events, we know after the fact and then how those learnings from there, but I’m curious, another big part of successful events is networking. And I know for Tripp and I, have been discussing constantly with clients, how do we network virtually? How do we make that, those organic experiences of networking and really being able to connect?

Tripp Underwood (17:13):

It’s the number one problem that my clients are having. Everything, the content it took us a while, but the content is great. The timing is great. Everything else is there, but that’s the one thing that I hear constantly. We just haven’t really solved that puzzle.

Elise Orlowski (17:26):

Yeah and I’m curious from the Bizzabo end, has there been any learnings of how to create more impactful networking within virtual platforms?

Alon Alroy (17:37):

Well, definitely there’s so, so many. And again, we saw many solutions and we listened. One of the things we try to do a lot is just to listen to our customers and to the market to watch and observe. And we saw that although there were many solutions to chat with people, it was too flat. It was very difficult to actually replicate that real connection you were able to do at an in-person event. How do you actually translate that hallway conversation into a meaningful conversation or relationship? I know there are all kinds of initiatives are there from a chat roulette type experience to joining a virtual table or things of that nature. But we saw that there in a way, two types of meetings that people want to create. People want to have those spontaneous or to stumble upon someone, but they don’t want to waste their time.

They actually want to stumbled upon someone meaningful to them. And then you will want to be able to actually plan meetings because you have an agenda, you know exactly who you want to meet, or it gives the profile or someone with similar interests. And we thought a lot on how do we actually able to personalize that experience so that you tell us what you like, we’re going to put those opportunities in front of you, or we’re going to give you the tools to actually find those people and engage with them. And we’ve been looking a lot at the industry thinking, build by partner and so on and so on. And if they’re happy to announce that just two weeks ago, we decided to acquire x.ai, which is not a player from the event industry, but they’re one of the best AI teams we met, that their expertise is actually about finding time to connect and really overcoming all of the scheduling challenges.

And at the time where events are becoming hybrid, that people are joining to an event from all around the world from different time zones. You may find the right person too, that you want to meet, but it’s going to be very, very challenging to actually find the time and actually make that meeting happen. So the plan is to really leverage very deep AI and natural language processing to create those very meaningful moments. Whether you want to plan the meeting to schedule a meeting, or you want to bump into someone. So this is another acquisition with a goal to that’s really personalize the whole event experience around content, around people, around brands, we’re very excited about that one, it will come to life in a few months and we do believe that this is in a way, the future of events. [crosstalk 00:20:29]

Tripp Underwood (20:30):

That just sounds to me it’s a perfect combination of spontaneity and data, right? You get that kind of organic spontaneous thing, but it’s also informed by people you might want to meet, have interest in, or at least areas you want to grow. In which to me, I think really speaks to the power of hybrid events. It’s taking everything that we’ve known about the traditional event world and what works, infusing it with the technology and data and AI, that virtual worlds, and pulls it together into one better more evolved experience. That sounds like a real indication of where the industry is going. That’s awesome.

Elise Orlowski (21:11):

Yeah, I’m excited to be able to show that to clients.

Tripp Underwood (21:14):

I’d be curious as to who I get matched up with.

Elise Orlowski (21:16):

Yeah, exactly. I think that almost sounds like a cooler experience. Cause it’s more curated. I don’t have to hunt people down in a ballroom. I can actually have a curated network experience.

Tripp Underwood (21:26):

Curated is a perfect term. That’s awesome. Very exciting.

Elise Orlowski (21:28):

That’s really exciting. I’m curious, we’re talking about hybrid, right. And I think hybrid is such a buzzword, but also it hasn’t really been done before. I think we’re just starting to think about it, but I’m curious looking forward, I think we’ve been thinking about all the learnings, but looking forward, where do you think we’re landing with hybrid events? What do you think that experience is going to be like moving forward?

Alon Alroy (21:54):

First? I’ll say that yes, it is a buzzword, but when we also think about it, hybrid is all around us already. Think about the most amazing companies in the world right now, like Uber, right? When you think about that experience, it’s this intersection between digital and real life that makes the experience very powerful. You click a button, suddenly there is a real car in front of you. When you think about Amazon, these are all hybrid experiences. So while we’re already living in a very hybrid world right now, without thinking about it, and this is where we need to take the industry, the industry is going to hybrid, there’s going to be, as I said earlier, way more than just here’s a live event in the live stream with some maybe Q&A, we really need people to feel like they can really move dynamically between the modes to in-person.

So I do think that all of the event elements will need to evolve. Sponsorship will need to evolve drastically because there will be virtual or hybrid in-person opportunities. Events will become also this year round medium with different activations on top. So now people think about an event is when the first piece of content, this is where the event starts, how to claim that actually event durations will really, really change. An event will have different components it will have a virtual component, it will have an in-person component. Then another virtual component that can be potentially a two month event. Start to think about it at the moment, but event formats will evolve. I think the event planner profession will evolve as well to something that is new. You’re going to need to have new skills and so on, but going back to your question to hybrid, the technology will need to be a major part of that as an enabler, I believe that virtual events obviously will stay and they’re going to have very particular goals throughout the year in terms of engaging your audience. And obviously to some things, if you’re talking about reach and diversity and inclusion, virtual events will be an amazing format. If you’d want to build relationships, really share with the world something amazing. There is nothing that will replace in person.

So you’re going to have different use cases for different objectives. I think we’re going to find time in which hybrid events will be actually very profitable because of that virtual opportunity.

Now people think about it, there’s this, okay. People are scared because of the hybrid production, because it means a lot, but over time it will take us a year. I do believe that hybrid events will be extremely profitable. I think we’re going to see all kinds of new ticketing models, like membership based and so on because it you’re going to get year-long value out of the event. The event will actually morph into this big community that you’re activating throughout the events. And I believe in general, there will be more focus on life. This whole trend of on demand will transform into a post event thing, but live production will actually come back big time and people will feel like it’s risk-free to do that because of all of the technology that will come up.

Tripp Underwood (25:17):

Yeah. And I love that idea of shifting the mindset of this industry to less be about this event as a moment in time and more about this event is a continuing conversation.

Elise Orlowski (25:28):

Yeah, it’s a series, it’s part of the bigger whole.

Tripp Underwood (25:30):

With communication tent poles that are live and virtual and like that, and thinking things in a more circular manner, as opposed to traditionally how we’ve been doing it for years have a linear one. I think that’s both exciting and dead on.

Elise Orlowski (25:43):

Yeah. And we’ve even been talking about how a lot of our clients, and even just how we’ve seen events. This event doesn’t really need to be live anymore. It serves better virtual, but I agree, just like you said, some events need to be live, they need to be in person. But I think also like with hybrid, it’s not two separate events and I love how you used the Uber analogy, the Amazon reality for hybrid, because it’s not two separate events that are working in tandem. It really is this complex hybrid experience. So it’s exciting to think of how to create that new experience. I think-

Tripp Underwood (26:21):

Action reaction, once something occurs in the digital world and there’s a live component and vice versa. You do something in the live world and it triggers a different experience on multiple screens and platforms.

Elise Orlowski (26:33):

Oh yeah. Speaking of hybrid Cramer. Plug, plug. Kramer and Bizzabo are hosting a hybrid event, one of our first, called Agents of Hybrid, but I’m curious Alon, what are you excited for about that event? I know we’re still in the works discovering all the creative and it’s been a great process, but I’m curious just what you’re excited for of that event considering it’s probably one of the first ones we’re really going to be doing as a hybrid event.

Alon Alroy (27:03):

First time I start that, I’m excited about it. And the reason we decided to call it Agents of Hybrid, because at the end of the day, the event industry, every event marketer, every event professional, we are the agents of hybrid. People are looking up to us to guide them how to do that. How is the hybrid future look like? And we’re not going to have all of the answers, but we’re going to bring in thousands of people to actually talk about that in a very meaningful way. That is very practical that people can actually leave the room with meaningful takeaways about hybrid because we are now in this amazing moment in time in which we’re going through this profound change. And there is a lot of opportunity to make a difference and to really reimagine, reinvent on how to deliver those personalized experiences, because it doesn’t matter how you look at it.

You’re going to have a remote audience, you’re going to have an in-person audience. And we are the people who are designing those experiences. So without truly understanding and facilitating a discussion around it will be difficult to move forward. That is what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to bring the industry together to lead the conversation, to lead by example. And it’s going to be amazing. We have some honestly amazing speakers and experiences, and it’s just the beginning. We’re going to do way more of these and exciting times to be in the industry. We’ve been going through a lot in the past year and I feel like everyone is now feeling that it’s coming back. We’re all excited, but we need the guidance.

Tripp Underwood (28:37):

We’re super excited. As Elise least mentioned, both she and I have been deeply involved in the Cramer end, and it’s just so exciting to see some of the new technology. And I just can’t wait to, not only do I think the audience is going to get a kick out of it, cause they’re going to learn so much, but it’s also just to see what this looks like, to see the potential. Content notwithstanding just, this is what it feels like. This is how the timing works. I think it’s just going to be incredibly useful education tool for people in our industry and we’re psyched to do. And it’s been awesome. It’s been a lot of fun.

Elise Orlowski (29:04):

Oh, yeah. And even just to think, re-invent, we’re even working on this opening experience and re re-inventing what an opening experience looks like in a hybrid world. It’s not just a studio session. It’s not just this, how can we integrate both the digital and the live? And so it’s been fun to be able to not be bound by what we already have done or established, but to be able to break those boundaries a little bit.

Tripp Underwood (29:27):

Yeah. There’s less rules, more fun.

Elise Orlowski (29:32):

Awesome. Well, Alon, I think this conversation has been so great. It’s so amazing. Just to, I think be able to think about the future with you together and thank so much for your time today.

Tripp Underwood (29:42):

Yeah. Thanks for joining. And we’ll see ya. See you in a few weeks for Agents of Hybrid.

Elise Orlowski (29:46):

Yes, we will.

Alon Alroy (29:48):

Looking forward to it. Thank you very much. Thank you everyone for listening.

Elise Orlowski (29:53):

Thanks, Alon.

Tripp Underwood (29:53):

Thanks, Alon. Appreciate it.

Elise Orlowski (29:57):

The future is hybrid, Tripp.

Tripp Underwood (30:00):

Yes but, I thought what he said that was super interesting is the future isn’t hybrid. The current, the present is hybrid. That idea of Amazon as a hybrid company that blew my mind. Yeah. Oh yeah, it is.

Elise Orlowski (30:15):

Or Uber. It is so true. Yeah.

Tripp Underwood (30:17):

So, the way I’ve been thinking about it and the way I’ve been positioning it, now I’ve got to rethink this, is the future of our industry is hybrid and it’s almost, oh no, the present of the world is hybrid. The events industry just needs to catch up. So instead of champing ourselves as these pioneers of the hybrid world, now, I’m almost, oh, we got to start playing catch up and make the events industry a more hybrid experience to match people’s expectations as opposed to redefine them, which is almost a little bit more pressure though.

Elise Orlowski (30:52):

Yeah. The pressures on with being at the forefront of all of this stuff.

Tripp Underwood (30:55):

Yeah. But that was just a fascinating, I mean, totally interesting guy, but that was a fascinating takeaway for me, is how can we look to current hybrid experiences that we now take for granted and start to think we need to get the event industry to catch up? And then that’s our job is to figure it out and then help our clients see what that looks and feels like. But thank God. There’s just so many great learning opportunities.

Elise Orlowski (31:19):

Oh yeah. And even just how the focus on technology, how technology, I think we’ve been incorporating in live events, but even with networking and how that’s going to be beneficial, not just for virtual, but for like we said, the future of events.

Tripp Underwood (31:31):

Yeah, what’s the cliche? Necessity is the mother of invention, right? So the past 18 months is things that people cared about or thought about, but maybe it wasn’t worth putting in the time or the, the R&D expense to develop these things. When we had to, because of the pandemic, we just saw this, just flood gates, open of this new technology that we’re still wading through. But to Alon’s point, I think it’s going to take about a year or so. But when we truly come out on the other side and we understand everything that has come around and been invented or perfected over these past 18 months, we’re just, it’s going to be just so many awesome toys to play with. And then just finding the right opportunity, the right toy, the right opportunity. And I think it’s really going to grow and, like you said, become normal. People are going to come to expect it. And it’s our job to make sure we deliver.

Elise Orlowski (32:19):

Yeah, the future is exciting and the future is now, oh. Well Tripp, like always, thank you for being here and thank you for watching another episode of Pivot Points. See you guys.